Top 10 in the World? In Dreamworld!

[Swany]

Originally Posted by jellyfish

Are WE glad you're only passing through !
It is said by many members here already....you can't judge after only a few dives with even maybe the 'wrong' guides.
I dived there also last week again and get more positive by the time.
It's true about the fishing cages; I saw a few, but luckily all empty !
I will surely try my best to get things improved regarding waste, fees end other less positive points. Hope we can jointly make local administration convinced of the necessity to introduce some improvements.
But..... we are visitors here and can't shout that they are misbehaving.
You get me, I hope ! Thanks of only passing through
Oh by the way....welcome to this forum

Yeah, I'm so glad that passingthrough is just passing through!

[TodayinPhil]

Originally Posted by Swany

Yeah, I'm so glad that passingthrough is just passing through!

You don't like it when outsiders make negative comments about your hometown, ha? Dontcha.

[Swany]

Originally Posted by TodayinPhil

You don't like it when outsiders make negative comments about your hometown, ha? Dontcha.

So what if I don't like it!

[TodayinPhil]

Nothin wrong it that.
As long as that don't impede progress, which depends on change.

Kill the messenger, but don't kill the message

Originally Posted by Swany

So what if I don't like it!

[World Wide Diver]

I have to agree with everything that Zambezikid has said. To see fish traps on one of the premier sites (in the World) is sickening - especially when divers are charged a lot (more than Palau pro rata).

Also, though the coral is very good, I also agree that you would expect to see more pelagic life there.

It is a fact that Apo Island is promoted Worldwide as a 'model' marine park and this place attacts millions of dollars in tourist money there every year (directly and indirectly). However, if the local Government/National Government/local dive operators cannot even protect this place properly (ie no fishing/fish traps at all), what hope is there for the rest of the dive destinations in the Philippines?

And, saying that the fishermen have been there for hundreds of years and should be able to fish the island/drop traps (most illegal I bet) is just a sad indictment of management and hence the por state of many reefs here.

I wonder where Flipino marine biologists and divers were in the 70's, 80's and 90's when 'fishermen' were using explosives and cyanide on a large scale? Left to their own devices, I am sure that fishermen would 'blow up' the reef there/kill the place within 3 months.

Therefore, these people should have no say in the future of a multi-million pound tourisim business upon which 1000's of people rely upon in Dumaguete.

Also, Filipino divers wanting to defend Apo must realise that it is much cheaper and easier for you to get there than people who travel halfway around the World. International dive tourists can easily go to Malaysia, Thailand, PNG, Indonesia or wherever. They will not come here if you Filipinos cannot protect your dive sites. To this. I personally have never yet seen ANY Filipino divers EVER doing anything to protect the marine environment here (besides the odd clean up dive - which is pointless as you population by rivers throw their basura in the rivers as a matter of course).

In fact, there are two problems here: firstly - people are conditioned and seem scared that they might upset someone and are also are just too disorganised and uncommited to take any action anyhow; secondly - people just do not want to get involved in helping or educating the poor people who cause much of the pollution and destruction to reefs through destructive fishing practices. This seems to be left to foreign NGO's. Indeed, the general attitude to conservation here is shockingly poor (compared to the rest of the World) and almost all of you will never 'stick your necks out' to protect your marine life (individuals, Government organisations, etc).

Therefore, please understand that divers such as Zambezikid know much, much more about protection and conservation that most. Also, people like him are at least prepared to speak up and be honest.

Be clear then that the kind of people reading this forum Worldwide (mostly divers considering coming to Dumaguete and Apo) are far more likely to listen to views from people like him rather than 'local' divers who can only compare Apo to Bohol to Moalboal to Puerto Gallera, etc - rather than comparing dive sites of the the Philippines to sites in Indonesia, Micronesia, Thailand, the Red Sea, etc, etc.

If you really like, you can learn from his comments and try to do something to improve Apo (and other places in the Philippines) so that you can compete with other dive destinations in SE Asia.

Shame on many of you on this thread for not recognising that you DO have a problem here and that this needs to be addressed.

[Swany]

Originally Posted by World Wide Diver

I have to agree with everything that Zambezikid has said. To see fish traps on one of the premier sites (in the World) is sickening - especially when divers are charged a lot (more than Palau pro rata).

Also, though the coral is very good, I also agree that you would expect to see more pelagic life there.

It is a fact that Apo Island is promoted Worldwide as a 'model' marine park and this place attacts millions of dollars in tourist money there every year (directly and indirectly). However, if the local Government/National Government/local dive operators cannot even protect this place properly (ie no fishing/fish traps at all), what hope is there for the rest of the dive destinations in the Philippines?

And, saying that the fishermen have been there for hundreds of years and should be able to fish the island/drop traps (most illegal I bet) is just a sad indictment of management and hence the por state of many reefs here.

I wonder where Flipino marine biologists and divers were in the 70's, 80's and 90's when 'fishermen' were using explosives and cyanide on a large scale? Left to their own devices, I am sure that fishermen would 'blow up' the reef there/kill the place within 3 months.

Therefore, these people should have no say in the future of a multi-million pound tourisim business upon which 1000's of people rely upon in Dumaguete.

Also, Filipino divers wanting to defend Apo must realise that it is much cheaper and easier for you to get there than people who travel halfway around the World. International dive tourists can easily go to Malaysia, Thailand, PNG, Indonesia or wherever. They will not come here if you Filipinos cannot protect your dive sites. To this. I personally have never yet seen ANY Filipino divers EVER doing anything to protect the marine environment here (besides the odd clean up dive - which is pointless as you population by rivers throw their basura in the rivers as a matter of course).

In fact, there are two problems here: firstly - people are conditioned and seem scared that they might upset someone and are also are just too disorganised and uncommited to take any action anyhow; secondly - people just do not want to get involved in helping or educating the poor people who cause much of the pollution and destruction to reefs through destructive fishing practices. This seems to be left to foreign NGO's. Indeed, the general attitude to conservation here is shockingly poor (compared to the rest of the World) and almost all of you will never 'stick your necks out' to protect your marine life (individuals, Government organisations, etc).

Therefore, please understand that divers such as Zambezikid know much, much more about protection and conservation that most. Also, people like him are at least prepared to speak up and be honest.

Be clear then that the kind of people reading this forum Worldwide (mostly divers considering coming to Dumaguete and Apo) are far more likely to listen to views from people like him rather than 'local' divers who can only compare Apo to Bohol to Moalboal to Puerto Gallera, etc - rather than comparing dive sites of the the Philippines to sites in Indonesia, Micronesia, Thailand, the Red Sea, etc, etc.

If you really like, you can learn from his comments and try to do something to improve Apo (and other places in the Philippines) so that you can compete with other dive destinations in SE Asia.

Shame on many of you on this thread for not recognising that you DO have a problem here and that this needs to be addressed.

Heeelloooo ... just your first post... but please introduce yourself before you "preach". Allright? Shame on you! Anyway, welcome to the forum.

[whtrahonky]

I like the way members are treated on this "forum" if anything "negetive" is said they are told the regular response "if you dont like it leave the country" or get baned from the forum or shut down the thread. So much for freedom of speech.

[jellyfish]

Are you pointing to a special person or special persons Whtrahonky with the heading of your reaction (Forum "NAZI")?
I guess not, otherwise I feel sorry for one special person. Guess who ?
Although I did agree with a meanwhile banned person (Zambi) on several of his comments, World Wide Diver is not behaving here very 'normal' by posting his first reaction on our forum.
Some more people have done such in their 1th posting.
I agree with Swany's comment.
You can still be a bit polite, even when you fully disagree with other standpoints.
If people can't, I have no problems when they are banned after some time.
I don't know how to interprete your heading now and I hope it's not what I first did 'read'.
Have too bad experiences with the second word in that heading.

But coming back to the real topic .....Yes, also I have quite some remarks to make regarding the way Apo Island and it's surrounding is 'prevented' from getting damaged if no more drastic actions are taken.
But it does not help at all (at least I have that conviction) to shout around how terrible the local government, fishermen, etc...etc... are behaving in their own country !!!

[blackline]

Originally Posted by World Wide Diver

I have to agree with everything that Zambezikid has said. To see fish traps on one of the premier sites (in the World) is sickening - especially when divers are charged a lot (more than Palau pro rata).

Also, though the coral is very good, I also agree that you would expect to see more pelagic life there.

It is a fact that Apo Island is promoted Worldwide as a 'model' marine park and this place attacts millions of dollars in tourist money there every year (directly and indirectly). However, if the local Government/National Government/local dive operators cannot even protect this place properly (ie no fishing/fish traps at all), what hope is there for the rest of the dive destinations in the Philippines?

And, saying that the fishermen have been there for hundreds of years and should be able to fish the island/drop traps (most illegal I bet) is just a sad indictment of management and hence the por state of many reefs here.

I wonder where Flipino marine biologists and divers were in the 70's, 80's and 90's when 'fishermen' were using explosives and cyanide on a large scale? Left to their own devices, I am sure that fishermen would 'blow up' the reef there/kill the place within 3 months.

Therefore, these people should have no say in the future of a multi-million pound tourisim business upon which 1000's of people rely upon in Dumaguete.

Also, Filipino divers wanting to defend Apo must realise that it is much cheaper and easier for you to get there than people who travel halfway around the World. International dive tourists can easily go to Malaysia, Thailand, PNG, Indonesia or wherever. They will not come here if you Filipinos cannot protect your dive sites. To this. I personally have never yet seen ANY Filipino divers EVER doing anything to protect the marine environment here (besides the odd clean up dive - which is pointless as you population by rivers throw their basura in the rivers as a matter of course).

In fact, there are two problems here: firstly - people are conditioned and seem scared that they might upset someone and are also are just too disorganised and uncommited to take any action anyhow; secondly - people just do not want to get involved in helping or educating the poor people who cause much of the pollution and destruction to reefs through destructive fishing practices. This seems to be left to foreign NGO's. Indeed, the general attitude to conservation here is shockingly poor (compared to the rest of the World) and almost all of you will never 'stick your necks out' to protect your marine life (individuals, Government organisations, etc).

Therefore, please understand that divers such as Zambezikid know much, much more about protection and conservation that most. Also, people like him are at least prepared to speak up and be honest.

Be clear then that the kind of people reading this forum Worldwide (mostly divers considering coming to Dumaguete and Apo) are far more likely to listen to views from people like him rather than 'local' divers who can only compare Apo to Bohol to Moalboal to Puerto Gallera, etc - rather than comparing dive sites of the the Philippines to sites in Indonesia, Micronesia, Thailand, the Red Sea, etc, etc.

If you really like, you can learn from his comments and try to do something to improve Apo (and other places in the Philippines) so that you can compete with other dive destinations in SE Asia.

Shame on many of you on this thread for not recognising that you DO have a problem here and that this needs to be addressed.

Who are you, who could come and give such a speach.

First of all. The fishermen have the right to live on what the Island have of fish. With the use of the tools they allways have used. What in the world is giving us divers the right to demand all others to stay away from our "seaspots", even them who have lived the places for decades.

Let us instead talk about what we aggre about. Dynamite fishing and other idiotic methods.Throwing garbage etc.

[whtrahonky]

Forum "NAZI" is regarding how some members want to control what is posted. Oh you cannot post a negetive coment, they want the "mushroom syndrome" Keep everone in the dark and feed them a line of shit. There are a lot of things wrong in Negros but no one here wants wants to admit it. We'll ignore it and it will go away, well good luck.