Property Ownership -The sticky Question -

[Union Jack]

Hello all, ever found yourself in the situation were You've allowed, out of your good heart, a relative to work your land or stay at your home to "look after it" while You are away earning your living for long stretches of time (years at times)?
I had a situation were I had allowed my sister in law and her family to live in an old bamboo house in a piece of land I own for a number of years, free to grow whatever they wanted and harvest whatever there was already in it, just to have to pay them a hefty compensation when I asked them to leave, as they claimed that they had nowhere to go. What is the Philippines Legislation saying about this subject?
The situation was then resolved but I would like to hear from expats whom had the same experience, what was done, the final outcome and how one can safeguard his interests in an amicable manner so to prevent offending a relative or good friend whom then later turns out to being just after what you got.
Would it make sense to stipulate a six months/ 1 year renewable contract to avoid all the headache? Expats.......beware!

[daffs]

you better consult an attorney, because there are special rights to the people who are living or farming your land (especially if they are already there many years)

[Kinhason2]

Originally Posted by Union Jack

Hello all, ever found yourself in the situation were You've allowed, out of your good heart, a relative to work your land or stay at your home to "look after it" while You are away earning your living for long stretches of time (years at times)?
I had a situation were I had allowed my sister in law and her family to live in an old bamboo house in a piece of land I own for a number of years, free to grow whatever they wanted and harvest whatever there was already in it, just to have to pay them a hefty compensation when I asked them to leave, as they claimed that they had nowhere to go. What is the Philippines Legislation saying about this subject?
The situation was then resolved but I would like to hear from expats whom had the same experience, what was done, the final outcome and how one can safeguard his interests in an amicable manner so to prevent offending a relative or good friend whom then later turns out to being just after what you got.
Would it make sense to stipulate a six months/ 1 year renewable contract to avoid all the headache? Expats.......beware!

Hi Union Jack,
Per our experience, it is wise to spell out everything in writing and have them sign in front of a witness. Having a lawyer is always a good idea too.

[Union Jack]

Well said Daffs and K2.
This is something I'll surely do in my next visit to Dumaguete.
Cheers.

[Mam A]

Writing out an agreement that specifies everything you want specified--the technical language the lawyer uses may not necessarily cover all that you want to cover so read the draft first. As a client you are entitled to respond to your lawyer's documentations since they are on your behalf. Documentations of relationships, defining their boundaries -- these are most likely to keep them [the relationships] healthy and beneficial. I do think that the benefits are mutual although expected to lean more on your side as the provider of the benefit[s]. As a local with a similar experience, I've learned that being kind does not always work somewhere along the relationship timeline. Example 1: My late mom allowed a family to live on a piece of residential land in Piapi for so many years, occupying about 100 square meters. The family was allowed to build their own place. This arrangement was without any written agreement because so to speak the family WERE Christian friends. NO! Don't bank on that. When my mom passed on to the Lord, I extended the kindness she granted this family, canceled all land rentals for several years with the verbal agreement that the family would save the rental money to use for moving out by June 2008. BIG MISTAKE! Now I have to clean up after them because the family has not cleaned debris and ruins from the site. I also had to pose irritation care of a lawyer. When you do this, it means money. MAJOR UGH! Example 2: Farm workers allowed to work for you for a very very long time--without your knowing that their horns have grown over the years. Now that I have assigned an encargado due to my inability to frequent the farm, I am getting triple the income from the land, not that it's much but it is more a decent amount that can buy veges and fish every week. It was amazing to me at first watching how my farm workers installed TVs etc. but I dismissed any theories from coagulating in my mind. Then the curtains fell one day. These I've only attended to in my retirement years here. HA! Count the years of abuse right before your own eyes. To top it all, since I still felt bad for these people because they've nowhere to go, I voluntarily gave them a piece of land--and it could not be small, 5,000 SQ.M.; because the family has families, two generations of them and the second generation is breeding profusely!!! DOUBLE MAJOR UGH! So you see, expats and locals alike--please document your relationships. If the people you are dealing with are at least high school grads, the procedure should not be too difficult for them to understand. If less than that, well, take the patient time to explain or don't enter any free-living-on -your-land deal. It's major pain. And I can't say more to emphasize this kind of pain.

[Kinhason2]

Originally Posted by Mam A

Writing out an agreement that specifies everything you want specified--the technical language the lawyer uses may not necessarily cover all that you want to cover so read the draft first. As a client you are entitled to respond to your lawyer's documentations since they are on your behalf. Documentations of relationships, defining their boundaries -- these are most likely to keep them [the relationships] healthy and beneficial. I do think that the benefits are mutual although expected to lean more on your side as the provider of the benefit[s]. As a local with a similar experience, I've learned that being kind does not always work somewhere along the relationship timeline. Example 1: My late mom allowed a family to live on a piece of residential land in Piapi for so many years, occupying about 100 square meters. The family was allowed to build their own place. This arrangement was without any written agreement because so to speak the family WERE Christian friends. NO! Don't bank on that. When my mom passed on to the Lord, I extended the kindness she granted this family, canceled all land rentals for several years with the verbal agreement that the family would save the rental money to use for moving out by June 2008. BIG MISTAKE! Now I have to clean up after them because the family has not cleaned debris and ruins from the site. I also had to pose irritation care of a lawyer. When you do this, it means money. MAJOR UGH! Example 2: Farm workers allowed to work for you for a very very long time--without your knowing that their horns have grown over the years. Now that I have assigned an encargado due to my inability to frequent the farm, I am getting triple the income from the land, not that it's much but it is more a decent amount that can buy veges and fish every week. It was amazing to me at first watching how my farm workers installed TVs etc. but I dismissed any theories from coagulating in my mind. Then the curtains fell one day. These I've only attended to in my retirement years here. HA! Count the years of abuse right before your own eyes. To top it all, since I still felt bad for these people because they've nowhere to go, I voluntarily gave them a piece of land--and it could not be small, 5,000 SQ.M.; because the family has families, two generations of them and the second generation is breeding profusely!!! DOUBLE MAJOR UGH! So you see, expats and locals alike--please document your relationships. If the people you are dealing with are at least high school grads, the procedure should not be too difficult for them to understand. If less than that, well, take the patient time to explain or don't enter any free-living-on -your-land deal. It's major pain. And I can't say more to emphasize this kind of pain.

Hi Mam A,
I have empathy for you and understand what you are going through as I have have been going through the same, however the matter for me involves 11 hectares of land, transfer of title under "falsehoods" . The action requires me to hire an attorney and hopefully justice will be served with the title revoked, and delivered to the rightful party who is I and my siblings.

Perhaps, a person or group can establish a entity which can advise our native born citizens of their "Rights" and be able to bring its' clients up to date regarding our laws dealing with relationships, both committed as marriage, and as singles. It is understandable that any person maybe be the victim of deceit both the foreigner as well as native born. Knowledge is power!
People have to consider the pros and cons for entering into any contract.
One should consider more than a handshake or......when they make life changing decisions. If folks are honest and understand that both parties must be protected a written legal document can be drawn which is agreed to and legally bound.
The Chinese have a saying "the faintest of ink is more lasting than the best of memories".

[Rhoody]

your last sentence might be true... in China...
... here in the PI it is more like: the ink is more worth than the letters it writes ...
Whenever there is an "IF" forget about the law here )unless you have loads of money, an international company or just wanna fight for self-satisfaction) just forget about the contract ...

I know it sounds offensive but its a sad truth... (many examples on request)

Rhoody

[daffs]

Dont spend any $$$$ or PESOS buying property there, unless you know all the laws of ownership, status of the land that you like to buy, all the documents have no hidden problems..I'm even almost a victim…..

[garbonzo]

Actually ink means nothing...some clown can show up with a property drawing in crayon and a couple fake signatures in pencil...and if he has the right connections and the right well-placed pesos your title means diddly.

Wouldn't touch anything beyond a reputable sub-division lot. Even then prepare for game-on if the wife dies before you do....

[Union Jack]

Originally Posted by Rhoody

your last sentence might be true... in China...
... here in the PI it is more like: the ink is more worth than the letters it writes ...
Whenever there is an "IF" forget about the law here )unless you have loads of money, an international company or just wanna fight for self-satisfaction) just forget about the contract ...

I know it sounds offensive but its a sad truth... (many examples on request)

Rhoody

Hello Rhoody, yes please, post as many samples as possible so that we can all understand fully what kind of deals/ problems one can face when dealing with ownership in the Phils.