Dirty greasy men

[tanjames_ph]

Originally Posted by barramac

hi j.diver
i ask this as a society question, not one about an individual relationship. some foreigner behavior here really does not fly in any country, while for other foreigners, the philippines brings out a community goodness that they probably did not have back home.

some societies hate foreigners, some tolerate them, others are openly welcome, for a variety of reasons. i feel the philippines is in the middle, i just curious about the evaluation factors, such as perceives importance of wealth, manners, anti social behavior, the local social class system, education, perceived gold digging etc.

will locals reach the tipping point from welcome to outright dislike, like they have in thailand(i have 2 diver/hoterier cousins in krabie, lived there for 20 years(half their lives), they live quiet family lives and are very nice people. they position in society has moved from local celebrities, to outward unilateral hostility). it is the behavior of a few that has caused this. i have personally witnessed the tipping point in cambodia and it is not pretty for most people. i for one enjoyed it, because i like change, but i would like to hear the factors that the philippinos place the greatest importance in

bottom line. like it or not, we all get lumped together

Regarding your question about a tipping point, here's something I learned from the school of hard knocks: If Mr.A treats Mr.B like Mr.B is inferior to Mr.A when Mr.B actually thinks he's either an equal or even superior to Mr.A, there will most probably be a bit of dislike between them. If they were smart enough to simply avoid and/or ignore each other, then there might not be an escalation of their dislike for each other. If they are stupid enough to attempt to assert their "superiority" on each other (just like some sports-minded jocks do when they think they're still young enough), their dislike for each other might escalate to animosity. If they recognize their initial folly (even after exchanging blows) and attempt to interact in accordance with each other's expectations, they might even turn out to be best buds.

If a visiting foreigner talks and acts like he knows better than, has nothing to learn from, and doesn't need the help of, any local, no self-respectiing local will try to help/assist/teach/guide/show/befriend that visitor, except if it's in exchange for that visitor's money. This isn't true only for the Philippines, I would like to think that this is true in any part of the world. Remember that new kid in school who thought he was cooler than everybody else? Remember how he got mugged until he started acting right?

I've been to some "tourist" places in the Philippines where the locals' general vibe is that of dislike and distrust for the visiting persons (even non-caucasians). Maybe it's their inherent hatred from a badly scarred memory of oppressive rule from foreign aggressors, maybe they've been thru too many bad experiences, maybe they were raised that way, maybe they just weren't breast-fed as babies.

I'm not a local of Dumaguete, but I am a Filipino. During my very short vacation there, I was pleasantly impressed by the general friendliness of the people in Dumaguete, both locals and foreigners. IMO, Dumaguete is friendlier than the average Philippine city.

You've got a good thing going with Dumaguete, please keep it that way. If you know of anyone or anything that might give it a bad reputation, or harm it, or make it a bad place to be in, please make sure that whoever/whatever it is gets attended to. It's your home now, and you don't want anything stinking up your place. However, as a foreigner, I strongly urge you never to challenge a local, it might be construed as a bullyish trait that could be generalized for the rest of the non-locals. When you feel the need to correct/accost/spank a local, try to get another local who would gladly do that for you. Then again, if it's another foreigner who's doing the stinking, we as locals, would be grateful to you if you were to address/confront him/her yourself. We, as your local hosts, do not wish to give the same bullyish impression on our guests, more so if you've graduated from being foreigners and tourists to neighbors and friends.

I hope the day comes soon enough when I take my leap of faith and move to be one of your neighbors. Until then, please keep Dumaguete just the way it is.

Just my 2 centavos...

[barramac]

good advise tanjames
i for one am part of the majority of foreigners, that are not fluent in tagalog or cibuano, let alone the subtlety of behavior patterns and so am not aware of so much that is going on around. and a superiority complex, is just going to create conflict in these circumstances.

in general foreigners in the philippines, are more individualistic and transient than philippinos, so being able to correct one in terms of a group perception, is not as feasible as with someone actively involved in an integrated community

i got good value out of your 2 centavos

[rusty trust]

hi barramac,,
sorry for late reply, i was so busy at the moment.... and yes i will answer your question... and i see its not only one its 2 but its ok....

here the one thing i like about the foriegner here in my country,,,, they are bringing business here,,, witch we thanksfull,, coz of this a lot of locals can have food in there plates,,, and some cold ones.. he he he.. joke,,,, because of those long noises here a lot of locals can have business to them and its a contribuate to the development of the city there investing there money....some local can see how they should work for that money they got from there forienger bosses that they have to work hard for that 1st before they got paid.... nothing wrong about it... its should be dane like that a nd should be happen like that.....
second answer for your question barramac.. thing i dont like about some foreinger here is no are,,,,,,,, they used some filipina to have there business here,,, some of they are aboussing the filipina or filipino because of lock of educations they just say yes even with out knowlage about what's those long noises wants for personal intenstions... then at the end its filipinos faults coz they let it happen to them to get used,,,, some of foriegner are taking advantage of those filipina's younger than them and no knowlege about what to do and what sould have happen before anything else.... like giving there self to them... but we cant blame any body or some long noises coz some of filipina just let it happen to them and get paid.... so its just like that.... and its anywhere anyway... ....

Originally Posted by barramac

rusty
thank u for the local insight. can i ask u one question

what characteristics do u respect about individual foreigners in town and what other things do u think is bad

[jellyfish]

Interesting topic with interesting reactions.
I fully agree with reactions of some locals like Tanjames.
Like JDiver mentioned, it's all about how a person (foreigner or local) behaves towards others, being females or males.
I guess we ALL know what are the DON'T 's.
Especially when you're a foreigner you have to be extra aware of that because locals (that's in MOST of the countries and not typical for the Philippines) look more critical to people who are from a 'different' nation.

I experienced this week a bad behaviour.
When having a cold one somewhere at the boulevard, an American guy (sorry Americans, it's not a campaign against your nation !) who was dressed if he was on his way to the battle front (boots, helmet, clothes ..), had several "conversations" on his celphone with obviously different Filipinos or Filipinas.
He was shouting and fulminating to many of them and made even a remark why they %#!! &&# could not give him decent english answers.
Somewhat later he took his helmet, sigaret in his mouth and shoot away on his motorbike from the place we were sitting.
His appearance alone was already not quite 'attractive' : fat, badly dressed, furious face, far from elegant moving ....
I felt ashamed and glad he went off.
The 2 Filipino customers looked also quite embarresed.
If I was sitting in my own country and saw/heard someone doing this, I should have the same opinion of disgust.
If that person also is a foreigner and e.g. complains that 'those bloody locals' don't understand his language, than I even should want to give him a good lesson (if I was a bit taller and stronger than I am ).
Try to be always polite and even more if you are a visitor in another country: expat or tourist, that does not matter.

[Arie]

Originally Posted by kuting

In Amsterdam, prostitution and marijuana is legal.

We went to Amsterdam to visit the “Lady of Nations”, but not the red-light district.

Rhoody thanks for confirming my point

taga-Cambagroy

I am from Amsterdam but do not really get this remark, what is the relevance?

[Arie]

overall advise as a foreigner seems to me; act as a guest don't act as if you own the place (that really gets on ppls nerves), if you get annoyed get over it or get moving

[Diver]

Hello Kutting

Explain yourself please, I am also from Holland and very close to Amsterdam.

Greetings J.Diver

[Timn8ter]

I've noticed a pattern, not only in PI but here in the US as well.
There are guys that are unable to compete in the mating game who somehow manage to form a relationship with an Asian woman, then proceed to abuse her.
My in-laws were very concerned when they learned their sister had married an American. They specifically wanted to know if I had abused her. In spite of the answer they were still hesitant to accept me until I'd spent a lot of time with them. I'm happy to say I'm as much a part of the family now as anyone.
While I may not condone kuting's posts, I can understand the frustration and anger.
On my many visits to the Philippines I've encountered these "loser" guys. They are unattractive, unintelligent, rude and carry a superior attitude.
I distinctly remember the old, overweight German man on Boracay hitting on teenage Filipinas who really wanted nothing to do with him. To their credit, they were not rude in return, but were obviously wanting him to go away. Also, the Canadian in Dagupan with his "fiancee"; very proud of himself even though he was obviously an ignorant fool. And, of course, the ugly American, who thinks everyone in the Philippines should recognize his superiority and become his lackey, after all, his country saved them, didn't it?
Like jellyfish I'm embarrassed by their presence and sometimes wish I could hide the color of my skin so I'm not presumed to be like them. I endeavor to distance myself from these characters as much as possible and have no desire to become a member of some "expat club" or frequent their "hang-outs".
Unfortunately, I have no suggestions about how to deal with these "losers" other than sites like this where we can at least point them out and discuss their behavior. Thank you for the opportunity.
I very much appreciate tanjames comments and suggestions and would enjoy more postings like that.

[TheDude]

There are guys that are unable to compete in the mating game who somehow manage to form a relationship with an Asian woman...

I think you are a little off in your assessment. For every man who is a loser in Western nations, there is a woman who is just as much of a loser. Losers will find each other.

Ex-con, stupid, ugly, abusive and a long list of other traits are no barriers to form relationships in Western nations. I have seen the worst somehow find love.

I have friends and family who just can't seem to stay single. They go nuts without being in some sort of relationship. When they get out of one relationship, they eventually find themselves in another. Where there is a will, there is a way.

By contrast, I am relatively young and I have none of the above mentioned traits. Yet I have spent most of my life single. This isn't because I am hopeless in the dating department. I have no problem getting dates when I make the effort. I just prefer to roll solo because I enjoy the freedom. I don't have that same single minded determination to get hitched.

These guys aren't going to the Philippines because they can't get lucky back home. They are going because they can find girls much younger and better looking than girls back home.

I suppose there are other qualities they look for as well. I have never been married though, so I have no horror stories of my own which would cause me to flee the idea of marriage with an American woman.

[Timn8ter]

These guys aren't going to the Philippines because they can't get lucky back home.

Just not getting lucky with the kind of woman they think they deserve.

They are going because they can find girls much younger and better looking than girls back home.

The question then becomes; Why are these women getting involved with them if they're jerks and losers (assuming they're decent women)?
Of course, we're probably thinking about two different types of guys. Some are just lechers, while others are lechers AND losers.
I don't intend to classify every Western male who visits the Philippines a lecher and/or loser. I'm sure many are very good people. It's just unfortunate that the bad ones make the situation worse for everyone else.